SCM Discussion Forum

1. 

   easybrizy
   Member

   I think I'm getting a feel more and more for what is good literature for my kids and what is definitely not.

   For example, I can clearly see that Winnie-the-Pooh is good. Lovely language, humor that peeks inside human nature, poetry, imagination. I can clearly see that Sponge Bob is not. Humor that insults their intelligence rather than lifts it up, goofy illustrations, etc.

   But there are grey areas for me. My oldest son received Knuffle Bunny, Too as a gift for his birthday a couple of years ago. The family member knew that we loved books and knew that the previous book (or was it this one) had won a medal, so she figured it was a great choice.

   So, my kids love the book. I don't. The illustrations hurt my eyes, and at first glance I would have said it was definitely twaddle. But the humor IS kind of funny, and it DID win a Caldecott medal, for pete's sake.

   Do people who must be a whole lot smarter than me know better than me?

   And maybe I'm being a hypocrite, because I love, love, love It's Not My Turn to Look for Grandma. It cracks us up every time, but it also has cartoonish illustrations.

   Hmmmm.

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post
2. 

   Rachel
   Member

   This is purely regarding the emphasis placed on medal winning; I keep it in perspective this way:

   In modern times, all these medals don't really matter to me. Examples (not literary):

   Those who won the Peace Prize-

   Yasser Arafat-Terrorist and anti-semite

   Al Gore-won Peace for what? His Global warming drive? How's that to do anything for Peace?

   President Obama-nominated after less than 2 weeks as President; then he won. WHY?

   So I use these few among many examples, under a variety of subjects, to illustrate that a Classic is a Classic and keep in mind who actually makes these decisions in the "modern standards of the gov't. school world". I don't think all of these medal systems were in place in the GOlden Age of children's literature, being the 1800's. Besides, the standards for what is considered even Literature for children has changed dramatically since WW2. Did you know that the first Caldecott was given in 1938 to "Animals of the Bible"? Do you think that would be considered today for one? I don't. Would Wind in the Willows be written for a child today as it was in 1908? and understood by the modern child at the same age that it was expected to be understood by a child before the age of TV?

   Well, I have to run fast, but trust yourself, not the people who give medals, at least in recent years. I have a general standard for Lit. before 1950 is the best, give or take a few (same with toys). Look for art as illustration, not cartoons; more language and less illustration so the child's mind can breathe and do the work; language using full and complete sentences that doesn't talk down to the child but is food for the brain, etc.

   Maybe I'll chime in later about this, as I am concerned about this as a general rule; it's about the next generation being able to  actually think and imagine for themselves.

   Rachel

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post
3. 

   lgeurink
   Member

   I don't try to keep every twaddle book out of our home.  No spongbob, but we have Fancy Nancy's Favorite Fancy Words and others that will not be around when our kids are adults.  Now, I am very picky about books and most are twaddle free.  We loved Wind in the Willows (7yo, 4yo).  My family is aware of our book love so they either go off my list or do their best, but I can't expect them to all know the definition of "twaddle"!  I think it is okay to read and enjoy goofy books or reading for silliness.  Our kids will still be Godly intelligent people if the occasional Care Bears book makes it into their collection, being aware of content for sure.  Also, we have many homeschool friends but no homeschool family so while I want my girls to be set apart (they told their cousins-6 year olds-that they didn't know who Hannah Montana was) I do want them to have some common ground with their cousins so if their cousin picks out an early reader Barbie book, I am going to let it slide.  For me it is a case by case evaluation of content with my control over the majority of books keeping their minds on Godly and intellectual pursuits if that makes sense.

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post
4. 

   Doug Smith
   SCM Team

   Have you seen our old post on What is Twaddle? It has some great comments.

   http://simplycharlottemason.com/2009/09/02/what-is-twaddle/

   I have to admit that not every book in our home is nutritious literature. But I'd say we've presented our children with a buffet of healthy choices and only a little "candy" in moderation. They have developed their own tastes over the years and now prefer the gourmet dishes.

   @easybrizy, I'm not familiar with the book you mentioned but we don't specifically judge a book for having cartoonish illustrations. Cartoons can be a powerful art form to get a message across. For example, look how skillfully some political cartoonists can make an impact with few words in a very small space. In fact, much can be learned about the attitudes and political climate of history by studying the cartoons of old.

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post
5. 

   Rachel
   Member

   easybreezy, you're not being a hypocrite to like the book you mentioned. I agree with what they both said; departing in that I think there is a difference in political cartoons and cartoons used for children's books. That being said, there are very enjoyable, light-hearted books to be read. There are also a few books where there are beautiful illustrations that take up the entire page on one side and print on the other, such as the Children's Book of....Series by William Bennett, illustrated by Micheal Hague.; he does wonderful illustrations. So as with many things, there are exceptions and judge it on a case by case basis, as was mentioned above.

   I just want to encourage you that the more you are exposed to the rich materials, the more you'll be able to recognize the twaddle. I do believe it is important to have a definite intake of one over the other and that is a differing amount dependant on the family. But if your children grow up with a consistent diet of good to high quality over low quality, then you will see the fruit of it in their language, imagination and appreciation of quality in other areas of their choices, too.

   Reiterating my previous theme; trust your gut instincts and not necessarily that a book wins certain awards, because content matters and you are the teacher and are given this authority to make the decision, not the award-givers. Why would you assume that these people who deem what's worthy for an award are smarter than you, just because they are in that position? Don't underestimate yourself like that; it's really the same, insidious argument that many "intellectuals" in the public sphere use to justify putting as many restraints on HS'ling as possible; that we aren't 'qualified'. Well, you are; G-d has given you the qualification; we all just have to get the info., the advice, the extra training or whatever else we need to do in certain areas to make us stronger teachers for our children, just as we do to make ourselves better wives and mothers, too. Does that make sense the way I put it? I hope it comes across the way I mean for it, too.

   Rachel

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post
6. 

   amytyndall
   Member

   My daughter has a My Little Pony video that would definitely qualify as twaddle. I don't love it, but then I see her apply thinking and memorization skills to it: In one episode, the ponies work together to make a layered cake, and can tell you which order the layers go in, as well as which pony made which layer. Would it be better to commit something else to memory? Probaby, but she is developing those skills nonetheless.

   So, we definitely encourage twaddle-free entertainment, and continue providing her with "nutritious," worthwhile materials, but we don't make a mountain out of a molehill. The things that I will fight against her seeing are sexual and violent images and vulgar language. We don't have any of that in our home, but occasionally while in the home of someone else, those things come on the TV, and I remove my children from the room as quickly as possible. I think it's good to keep in perspective what is really worth getting worked up about.

   Posted 1 year ago # Report Post

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